Hi,

I am using PVCS 2.8 Patch 2 but I can't find where the List Manager is. On page 3 of the PVCS Core V 2.8 manual it is reported as a new feature but it doesn't show up in the Appications Page. Also, in the Programming Page, when right-clicking in the Programming Items window, there is no Add New Script entry like shown on Page 9 of the PVCS Programming V 2.8 manual. On the other hand, when opening the CustomList Data in Script DEMO, if looking for references to the AddItemToList event, the related script is found and double-clicking on it opens its window, but when closing it, there is no other way to see it. All this is very much nonsensical and frustrating, it seems that the PVCS documentation, besides being very poor and scarce, lagging ages behind the actual software features and updates. Recently I had the same problem about Machine Hours, which is still wrongly documented explaining how it worked in previous PVCS versions. I am still using PVCS 2.3 to convert DB3 configuration files and there the Add New Script entry shows up when right clicking, so apparently it has been disabled in version 2.8 unless very well hidden somewhere without letting users know. Please let me understand how to handle it. Thank you in advance for your help.

Kind Regards

Hello guidofor,

I understand what you are saying, I have found very few products actually document their features and capabilities so I can find what I am looking for easily and completely! Sorry you are having difficulties. I hope I can help, I think a lot of times when I am writing a post I am writing so clearly, but when I go back later and read it, I find I have left out a lot of information or put in something that really doesn't help. :-)

I have separated out what I think you were having the most difficulty finding. Your comments are in green.

I am using PVCS 2.8 Patch 2 but I can't find where the List Manager is. On page 3 of the PVCS Core V 2.8 manual it is reported as a new feature but it doesn't show up in the Appications Page.

At this time, the List Manager is not treated as a separate application like the IO Port Manager, J1939 Port Manager, User Interface Manager, etc. If you open a script, select the Function Reference tab and look for the "ListManager" actions, you will see they are all under the CCM.

If you look in the PowerVision Configuration Studio Programming RF v2 8_HR.pdf, you will find a section about Programming Lists. Several of the newer functions have not been added to the reference manual, such as the ListManagerFindBy*(). There is some information about the ListManagerFindBy*() functions in the Function Reference of scripts.

Something else the Core manual doesn't make clear is that monochrome displays don't have custom lists. The release posts on the forum has a list of features divided into sections for all display hardware, color displays and monochrome display, the Core reference manual shows changes by PowerVision Configuration Studio tab. Most changes are for all hardware types, but not all.

Also, in the Programming Page, when right-clicking in the Programming Items window, there is no Add New Script entry like shown on Page 9 of the PVCS Programming V 2.8 manual.

Depending on the type of hardware selected, scripts and custom lists may or may not be used. Monochrome displays do not have scripts and custom lists, so if the hardware type selected for the config where you are trying to create a script is PV380, for example, you won't be able to right-click to create a script or a Custom List. On the other hand, when you are editing a config for a color display, you will be able to right-click create a script or add a custom list.

If you are editing a config for a color display, that doesn't let you create a script by right-clicking in Programming, please let me know, this sounds like a bug.

"...if looking for references to the AddItemToList event, the related script is found and double-clicking on it opens its window, but when closing it, there is no other way to see it."

I'm not certain if you are saying that you couldn't see the script or you couldn't right-click to try to create a new script. I will mention here that if you open a config for a color display that has scripts and custom lists, then switch the hardware to a monochrome display type, the scripts and custom lists will not be automatically removed, you will have to edit the config by hand. The config will not validate until you have removed the invalid items. You will be allowed to save it with the invalid items.

Recently I had the same problem about Machine Hours, which is still wrongly documented explaining how it worked in previous PVCS versions.

I apologize. We would rather spend time developing features and fixing bugs rather than providing explanations about how to use them, I hope you understand.

I am still using PVCS 2.3 to convert DB3 configuration files and there the Add New Script entry shows up when right clicking, so apparently it has been disabled in version 2.8 unless very well hidden somewhere without letting users know.

I have not been able to recreate this in PowerVision Configuration Studio 2.8.10528 if the hardware type of the configuration is a color display. If you can provide more details, I will look into this further.

Sorry, hope this didn't ramble on too much and you found something useful.

Thanks a lot for your quick reply,

yes you are right, I am using a monochrome PV 380 display and indeed in the official documentation I couldn't see any statement about missing scripts and custom lists for monochrome dipslays. Also, the scripts remain somewhat in place when opening examples made for colour displays after switching configuration to monochrome hardware. However for our appplications, lack of arrays (or lists) is a serious shortcoming which I think should be resolved ASAP, I am going to explain the reason why. Unfortunately, unlike coulur displays, for monochrome ones it is not possible averaging the input of a resistive sender by choosing the number of samples and sample rate, we need it to filter out disturbances caused by vibrations to the fuel level sender, otherwise the related gauge shows some unpleasant flickering. So if arrays were available, I would have used one implementing a ring buffer for the collection of samples to be averaged. Maybe it is possible achieving the same functionality using a set of discrete variables indexed by enumeration but I am not sure about it, your advice would be highly appreciated. Probably the same job might be done using logging functions limited to the necessary number of samples but I am not sure because again the related documentation isn't very helpful. Thanks in advance for your help.

Kind Regards

Hello guidofor,

There is a lot of talk around here about putting lists in the monochrome displays. The older hardware just doesn't have the resources needed for the lists. The newer hardware (R2s) have the resources, but there are other capabilities that would be a higher priority. Who knows...

For now though, did you look at the PreDefined Curves in the Library? Is your fuel level sender a resistive sender? In PowerVision Configuration Studio 2.8.1.0.258 Blank Configuration (Mono Display), we put the data curves for common resistive senders. The IO application firmware will filter/sample/average to do what it can prevent erratic jumps of the gauges. Monochrome displays have Interpolation, the color displays don't.

Before we had the PreDefined Curves, we had these crazy calculation events that were ok, but now you can add the data curve for your sender and it will let the lower level code do the major calculations.

Thank you,

it sounds a bit strange that monochrome displays don't have enough HW power to handle arrays, I have used some very old microcontrollers which are orders of magnitude slower than the microprocessor powering the PV 380 and could handle arrays in C and C++ without any problem. Anyway, getting back to the application, the resistive fuel sender I am using is an Italian VEGLIA standard 300/10 Ohm, predefined curves are useful to linearise and precalculate the resistive signal from the sensor but have nothing to do with noise filtering. To do that, the best way is collecting samples for a few seconds in a circular buffer, then calculate at the chosen display rate the average over the entire buffer, for example if it has 10 slots their sum has to be divided by 10. This technique is very effective to smooth out wild swings of the sensor floater caused by turbulence in the tank. I have an idea how to do it without using arrays but of course it becomes much more cumbersone and long to do, I think definitely arrays are a must-have feature even for monochrome displays and are implemented and handled by PVCS.

Kind Regards

Hello guidofor,

It is really the memory on the monochrome displays that limits the lists and scripts features. The processor does affect feature decisions, but for lists and scripts on monochrome displays, it is about the memory consumption. Supporting lists would require considerable more memory which would limit what could be done in a configuration. Even now, many configs get too big for the amount of memory available. There has been a lot of work done to compress parts of the configs so that we can continue to add capabilities to configs. The PowerVision applications developers are very diligent to be efficient with their code to minimize the memory and processing used at their level so that there is more left for the config, but there is only so much they can do within the limit of the resources available. It is all a trade off. If you must have scripting, lists and memory, then you need to be using a color display.

The PV350/380s do have some noise reduction at the A/D converter level. For most applications where the PV350/380s are used, this has been sufficient even for fuel level. Your application may be different to require additional filtering.